LANGBANK COMMUNITY COUNCIL
MEETING MINUTES
WEDNESDAY 10th May 2023
LANGBANK VILLAGE HALL,
MIDDLEPENNY ROAD7.30pm.
In attendance: Jacqueline Doherty (secretary) acting Chair, Maggie Hancock, John O’Brien, Caroline Bryce, JulieGilmour Cllr James MacLaren, Cllr colin McCulloch and Carly Deheer (acting secretary),
Apologies: Neil Barrington (chair), Gloria Dunn (treasurer), James Hunter, Cllr Fiona Airlie
Also in attendance: Iain McDougall and Leslie Fairlie,
Sandy McCallum, Muriel Colquhoun, Tom Booth, David McKinnon, Grant Fullarton, David Hallworth, David Hallworth (snr) Nadeem Mirza, Grace Mirza, Lilian Lenz, Gillian Carlin-Kulwicki, Trixie Brown, Gordon McPherson, Katrina Magee, David Magee, Christine Page, Ania Owsianka,
HEAD COUNT 28, named 27 at initial agenda point,
15 following completion of Gleddoch PP discussion
There was a large attendance at this meeting primarily for the purpose of discussing the Gleddoch proposed development – referred to as “GD” hereafter. It was suggested that this item be brought forward on the agenda – all agreed.
Planning Application 23/0128/PP 30 Glamping Pods, Gleddoch House.
FB Poll information; 60% Against, 4% support, 36% no strong view.
It was stressed that the CC can object, however this is only one voice, ALL must add their own objections.
Local concerns raised by villagers over this application.
Possible sewerage overload on a weak system with previous leaks into the village.
This has been in issue the past with some gardens backing on to field in front of “The Grange” having raw sewerage in their garden; not happened recently, however there are still issues of sewerage on Old Greenock Road, this was confirmed during the meeting.
Discussion followed; questions raised:
QU. Is there any information as to what caused recent overflow issues?
It was suggested it may have been a mains blockage which may not be relevant to current PP. The residents of Gleddoch Wynd (GlWy)confirmed that a new septic tank was added for their development.
Another attendee confirmed that recent overflows have been caused by various factors including back traps not collecting grease effectively and old pipes.
Main concern raised is that Gleddoch have historically “not complied with regulations correctly” and have been guilty of cost cutting measures in the past, residents voiced concern that this approach may lead to detrimental impact in the future.
QU. Has any representative of Gleddoch been invited to attendee this meeting,
It was confirmed that NB had been in contact with Gleddoch to raise awareness.
CC member – asked the room to ask if anyone representing Gleddoch was in attendance, no response, assumed no representative in attendance.
Attendee raised concerns regarding the addition of a newseptic tank, issue with overloading soak away and reed bedsand overflow into water course.
In addition, another attendee made comment regarding hot tubs discharging chemicals; reed bed unsuitable for this.
Suggestion that any sewerage issues are photographed as evidence.
An attendee confirmed that she is in regular contact with SEPA (a consultee of the application PP) leading us to believe that SEPA are aware of the issues surrounding Gleddoch’s sewerage infrastructure.
Possible overload on water supply
Following the fire at Gleddoch hotel the water supply was updated to include a pumped mains water facility.
The GlWy residents confirmed that when there is no electricity due to power outage, they have no water supply. Itwas noted that Gleddoch hotel have a generator to combat this issue.
Concerns have been raised that additional water being pumped to supply the glamping pods and accompanying hot tubs would have a detrimental effect on village and surrounding water pressure.
Discussion regarding the fact that water supply is public up to the point it reaches private land boundary. Concerns that the Application may be misleading regarding the proposed water supply.
There is a general feeling of concern regarding the volume of water required to service 30 Glamping pods with bathroom, kitchen facilities and hot tub.
Access: Splits into 2 areas – access during construction & ongoing
During Construction
Concerns that full access to all properties needs to be maintained during the construction process.
Concerns raised regarding the number of heavy vehicles using narrow / single track country roads. It was evident that there are genuine concerns around the safety of pedestrians, cyclistsand horse riders.
Ongoing
There is a lack of public transport links and safe active travel routes in this area for the current population, it was noted by an attendee that the PP has made reference the convenient location of the nearby train station. The general agreement was that pedestrians accessing the pods via Station Road or Houston Road due to lack of pavements on either faceconsiderable risk.
The incline and distance will also be problematic for holiday makers and their associated bags and luggage. These constraints will result in most users arriving by road, which is unfamiliar to them, resulting in a dangerous increase in traffic.A resident raised concerns that these new road users may have no country road driving experience. The safety of all road users in this area is currently a concern, the increased number of people will only compound this.
Horse and rider issues and signage have already been raised with RC who have to date completed a desk survey and have advised that current signage is sufficient.
Attendee repeated his question as to why no representative from Gleddoch is there, chairing member reiterated that they could not answer on behalf of Gleddoch. A question was raised regarding current ownership of Gleddoch and was confirmed by an attendee that all her previous dealings have been with a large “corporate” organisation with little interest in working with the local community.
It was also stated that GlWy residents have in the past had toengage lawyers to act on their behalf as Gleddoch chose to communicate via this method with regard to the previous Water issue at their properties.
It was confirmed that the DEADLINE for objections had been extended again, an attendee had been contacted by RC planning department to advise further extension to 13th JUNE 2023
The GlWy residents confirmed that they felt that contact by Gleddoch to advise of PP had been inadequate; in the form of an addressed letter thru their doors – easily mistaken for junk. The general feeling was that better dialogue from Gleddoch with all neighbouring properties earlier in the process would have been a lot more beneficial. Many of the neighbouring residents confirmed that they felt that Gleddoch treated them with disregard and in an aggressive, wholly inappropriate manner.
The residents are querying if the notification of proposal is fulfilling all legal requirements, and what role RC have in the notification process.
An attendee had been advised by RC that only neighbouring properties within 20m of the development need to be notified. Attendee in receipt of email confirming definition “neighbouring land” from RC (copy attached below.)
The “neighbouring properties” information provided on the email by RC was questioned by another attendee whoreferenced a paragraph in the planning Act which refers to rural land and may be more relevant in this case.
The residents of GLWy have questions whether Academy course was “sold as” a facility for sporting achievement, in which case why this is now being disrupted by building glamping pods on site. Some residents believe that a condition of the PP granted for houses at GlWy was that the Academy course was created for community use. Residents who wish to confirm this information can forward all specific details to JMcL with a freedom of information request.
The general lack of dialogue and information from Gleddoch is causing concern with many attendees, particularly as reflects the corporation’s historical attitude to surrounding area.
Attendees voiced concern regarding previous planning applications e.g., the Driving Range, that the corporation have not fulfilled the conditions stipulated in their consents fully.
The chair requested that the information relating to incomplete conditions of the previous applications be collated and details forwarded to LCC. This would be actioned by a GlWy resident.
Re previous PP conditions incomplete / not complied with all conditions
Suggestion that any complaint should be made separately to PP objections.
Residents of GlWy to provide details of all incompliances of all previous planning permissions.
JMcL confirmed objection can include historical issues for weight.
He also directly asked the room if he should make a request that the planning decision be taken to a planning board of elected members instead of decision by planning officer. The attendees requested that JMcL make the request the decision taken by board.
It was suggested by an attendee that it would be financially beneficial for RC to have this planning permission approved.
Questions were asked regarding procedure of planning committee:
If it goes to planning committee can any communityrepresentative attend? It was confirmed that they cannot contribute – only attend at public gallery.
Could objectors appeal any planning decision? S of S – appeal to government only available to applicant, not objectors
Additional comments from attendees that Gleddoch had proposed build 10 A Frame chalets in overflow carpark, PP was denied as main hotel building is a B-listed property, the proposed development was within the curtilage of the B listed building.
It was proposed by an attendee that Gleddoch representativebe invited to a public meeting.
Discussion followed concerns voiced that there is a general ignorance and apathy within the village to the proposed development and the effects on the surrounding area it may have.
Chair informed the meeting that anyone can call a publicmeeting can be held by anyone and would need to be arranged out with the CC monthly meeting. A few ideas were discussed to engage the local community, e.g., leafleting all households in the village if the objectors wish to raise awareness or advise details of any public meeting details.
An attendee asked for extraordinary LCC meeting, the Chair confirmed that the CC has limitations and declined, she confirmed another person would need to take ownership of public meeting, the CC would not be arranging.
There then followed a discussion around whether a public meeting would be beneficial and general feeling was that this wasn’t required as individual objections would carry more weight than a generalised objection.
An attendee requested the there be posts on Facebook and an article on the webpage encouraging local engagement. IT was confirmed that a link to the PP had been provided. JMcL confirmed that volume of Objections would add weight.
It was noted that in the past the LCC had objected to a Gleddoch development, the objections were not upheld, and development went ahead.
It was acknowledged that making an objection can be time consuming and that individual objections do carry more weight.
It was suggested that to encourage more objections guidelines / points / related information could be summarised to locals, an attendee has already started this process by asking interested villagers to get in touch with her for details.
An attendee added they would like to draw the LCC attention to the fact that Gleddoch currently have a– 2nd planning application to extend fence to 15m high at Driving Range,
He has concerns that additional 5m will have a detrimentalimpact on wildlife and raised concerns about the cavalier attitude towards current facility and is worried that the sameattitude to upkeep pods will lead to issues.
It is believed by a number of attendees that Gleddoch have not fully complied with the original planning application for the driving range.
An attendee has confirmed that they will summarise the details of the non-compliances in relation to the driving range.
Chair stressed the importance of individual objections.
LCC making an objection would only be counted as ONE objection, this would be based on issues of sewerage, water supply, access, safety and Issues of increased noise and litter.
LCC would encourage the RC Planning Dept to review these concerns in depth.
ADD PLANNING - Also 2 emails from the private landlord team at RC.
1. Short term let licence application – by Larch Green lodges for premises Undercraig Farm, Old Greenock Rd, max occupancy 10.
2. Short term let licence application – self-cateringNethermill Lodges, Netherton Road, max 6 occupancy.
No objections were raised as relates to existing developments.
NO Police Report.
Parking issues at COAST restaurant on Main Road. – reply from LCC to Gavin Newlands MP)
NB has contacted Gavin to confirm his support is appreciated.
The chair outlined briefly LCC actions over years re parking issues – summarised current position.
A McCallum in attendance confirmed that foreshore was sold for A8 build and he thinks there will be telecoms underground at land between A8 and main road at roundabout. A McCallum confirmed that he had received contact from the Cawleys re purchase of land, but he had received no offer for his land to the east of the Coast Main Car Park. He confirmed that if he received a realistic offer for the land then he would consider selling it. He acknowledged that the current parking situation is problematic.
Gavin Newlands is onboard – still working with him, see attached Cllr FA-N report parking at Coast trying to progress with Trans Sc / Amey – site visit and Sctrns
Question asked in relation to houses opposite church – is that land ownership the same as the COAST end? JD confirmed that the land at Coast was owned by Scottish Ministers.
It was suggested a response to the Scottish Ministers would be to offer them use of any car park for works vehicle parking, JD confirmed that this could be part of any constructive dialogue if we could get there. Safety concerns reiterated, indication of progress MSPs & MPs on board.
Question asked in relation to safety issues due to number of accidents at roundabout - would this be an issue if this was a car park on the proposed parcel of land. Suggested made that speed cameras be located near roundabout as most issues are caused at roundabout due to speeding to straight thru. It was agreed that this is an ongoing issue and chair clarified that over the years many suggestions had been made and considered, including speed cameras. See attached JMcL report.
Suggestion that financially it would be in RC interest to add speed camera, but it is thought the responsibility of cameras are that of speed cameras Scotland.
Village website and Facebook updates.
The admins have looked at their processes and reviewed the guidelines, which have been updated and the admin will ensure they are all working to these guidelines.
This FB group was intended as information page only and never intended as a discussion group.
Previous feedback from villagers following similar situations was that the majority of the FB group users require an “information only” page. More recently the majority of the feedback reflects this position. Unfortunately, it can be unclear which posts will be seen to be controversial.
Revised guidelines have been published on the FB page outlining that the page does not directly influence the CC agenda and any villager wishing to discuss community topics should request the topic be added to the agenda and where possible attend in person the meeting.
If any villagers would like to start a FB discussion group, then we as CC page admin would happily signpost users to this unrelated page.
One option that we would consider is turning off comments on ALL POSTS, this would be detrimental to the usefulness of the page.
JD acknowledged oversight by admins that Gleddoch Post from Muriel should have had the comments turned off from the get-go.
Admin receive comments flagged by other users, and some users have removed themselves from the page as it had become a debating platform.
The main objectives of the page are to promote activities and events and foster a sense of community Giveaways service and requests for assistance are examples of posts that require comments.
It was confirmed that the reasons for deleting posts or turning off comments are not always shareable, but admins will share where appropriate.
There was discussion as to whether the page could be more open to comments, could comments be ignored or not read by people, but admins confirmed the page will remain information sharing only.
There may be a minority who wish to have a discussion platform and if anyone would like to start their own discussion group or page then admins would be Happy to signpost to a discussion page, but these pages will not be directly related to current community page.
Discussion regarding posts relating to issues affecting village should be posted. Concerns that there is a lack of factual info, for example planning applics info should be published on FB.
All planning applications that are relevant and are flagged to the LCC will be posted to FB page with application link and application details.
Comments cannot be controlled and cannot be monitored anattendee pointed out that there are 871 on FB members vs number of attendees to a “regular” LCC meeting and raised concern that by turning off comments we are not encouraging a more wide-ranging constructive discussion. It was reiterated that the FB page is not meant as a discussion platform and most complaints received are regarding comments on posts where discussion arises.
Attendee raised a concern that there is lack of consistency with admin of page.
e.g. Not consistent - Parking and Gleddoch related posts always have comments turned off vs discussion via comments left on for speeding and noise on the A8 posts
It is difficult when a post is approved initially to know if it will attract comments and admin team relay on members to alert them to inappropriate comments.
Reiterated that FB posts and comments do not relate to LCC agenda, concerns and complaints need to be flagged to relevant authorities e.g., police 111, RC or LCC monthly meeting.
JMcL noted loads comments on FB re noise / black Mercedes but very few had been raised with him.
An attendee raised a concern that bigger issues aren’t beinggiven due consideration, could we remove individual comments as opposed to switching off all comments.
Another attendee noted that the current guidelines are not community spirited and suggested separate feed for no comments posts.
Response – Understood that the attendees felt the FB page wasn’t meeting their needs however any villager can start their own discussion group, but LCC page needs to satisfy the majority of the users and all admins remain community focussed. Comments can easily get out of control e.g. Even the village party post had an unkind comment.
CC member summarised that the position of the LCC would remain unchanged, and asked we move on to next topic, due to time constraints. He noted at 9.30pm only 3 agenda points had been covered. He suggested any further concerns be brought to next meeting, the FB and webpages are a monthly agenda point.
MUGA status.
Street stuff has returned to MUGA last week, no bus last week or tonight, but still a busy session.
Question asked as to why it started again – no current information as to why.
JMcL confirmed that RC currently undertaking consultationof young people. Due to small number of responses theconsultation has been extended. See JMcL report.
JG has contacted RC and offered to be contact for village young people – due to lack of clubs.
More people need to complete these surveys.
Question asked why there was no bus, but no one has information relating to this currently.
JD and JG will publicise consultation.
RCC Forum Mtg on 13th March @ Johnstone Town Hall.
Updated provided at last meeting JOB - NO NEWS
Langbank Church conversion follow up.
No update
Church news – Foodbank collection will no longer go to Glasgow City Mission as they no longer accept food donations. Langbank Church will work in conjunction with Houston for future collections – recent collection was gratefully received.
LPS works in conjunction with the church to collect foodbank donations.
Village Community Centre update
Last weekend’s Coronation party event was very successful.
Special Thanks to CB for all her efforts and organising.
Working on general improvements in the hall – just been painted, Marquee purchased.
JD acknowledged new committee’s enthusiasm and thankedIain for his efforts including the many “little” DIY tasks addressed in and around hall.
* Cllr MacLaren’s monthly input.
Roads
A8 Roundabout: - Transport Scotland say that the roundabout has been included for further investigation within the 2023/24 trunk road casualty reduction programme of works. This investigation is currently programmed to deliver its initial findings by the end of October 2023, and will include results of a speed survey that will be carried out at this location.
Capital Works Programme 2023-24: -
Resurfacing: - Middlepenny Place / Road (to Dennistoun Rd), Middlepenny Road (Railway to Main Road)
Vehicle Exhaust Noise
My council motion to bring about some control and policing of noisy vehicles was successful and a report about this will come back to a future board meeting on how this might be curbed.
Street Lights
Marypark Rd: - The council lighting team have addressed the light being on 24hrs and have installed a new mini cell.
Middlepenny Rd: - Due to Openreach work taking place, SP’s repair was delayed, but is now complete.
IMcD confirmed that this is the case, although temporary traffic lights still in place.
My council motion requesting the council to write to Scottish Power to speed up the repair process was accepted unanimously. Scottish Power have admitted failings and I will be meeting with them to discuss this.
Planning Applications
Gleddoch 23/0148/PP (fence): - The deadline for representations for this application has been extended to 6thJune.
Gleddoch 23/0128/PP (glamping pods): - the deadline for representations for this application has been extended to 13thJune.
StreetStuff
With regards the survey and consultation carried out, by end of April (approx.) there had been 367 responses so far and 30 of those have been from young people in Langbank. With not a great uptake of the exercise, the timescale for completion has been extended further. A range of workshops and roadshows will take place including additional visits to schools in an effort to engage and interact with young people. The MUGA has been included in activities for ages 8 – 16 years from 6.30pm to 8.30pm on Wednesdays for the next couple of months.
See previous item for questions raised.
Gleddoch Sewage
Council is contacting Gleddoch House to obtain an update on the repairs to the damaged pipe and any improvements which have been carried out to their system.
Community Payback Orders
The Scottish Government provides ring fenced funding to finance justice social work activity. The level of grant is calculated on the basis of workload and factors such as social and economic costs of crime.
Burst Pipes
Water Leak, bottom of Middlepenny Rd: - Scottish Water attended and repaired the water main leak at this location last month.
Water Leak, top of Middlepenny Rd: - No leak has been found so far.
Cycle Paths
SPEN (Scot Power Energy Networks) are proposing a new power line which will involve constructing temporary haul roads. It is hoped that the routes can be left in and formalised into a traffic free route that would link West Ferry with Chestnut Ave (or potentially Golf Road). If successful it would also achieve the twin aims sought by the community and the Rotary Club for the Coastal Path.
Regards the section of the existing cycle path running alongside the A8 from West Ferry to Langbank, Transport Scotland intend to carry out improvements this year. Brush and scrub clearance should have been done by now, before the nesting season.
Village Hall
The team at StreetScene ground maintenance will undertake works to cut the hedge and remove vegetation behind the hall.
Local Partnership
Local Partnership committees are meeting this month to agree a host of grants to worthy causes. Tomorrow is the turn of the Erskine, Inchinnan, Bishopton & Langbank partnership. Langbank Swing Park Regeneration group are applying for funding for new planters along Main Road, and Christmas lighting.
JOB (to JMcL) query with refernce to advisory 20 limit becoming mandatory, JMcL – confirmed there is currently no timeline.
JOB reported 30mph Signpost down on Main Road
Cllr Fiona Airlie-Nicolson report
Street stuff
The interim timetable of activities being delivered throughStreet Stuff over the next couple of months has been sent to me. Langbank will have street stuff delivered at the Muga on Wednesdays from 6.30pm till 8.30pm during April till Junefor 8–16-year-old young people.
Unfortunately, there has not been a great uptake on theconsultation exercise with young people to date (just under400) and have therefore extended the timescale for completionover the next few months. A range of workshops and road shows will take place including additional visits to schools in an effort to engage and interact with young people andencourage them to complete the questionnaire. Once thisexercise has been completed, we will get an update from ourPartnership Analyst on hotspot areas and review activities inpreparation for a new timetable.
The team are also working on a programme of activities for the Summer Holidays which will be finalised once we know what funding is available from Scottish Government.
Carriageway23/24 Roads
Council has approved its Road and Footway Program for the year. It follows on from our £45m roads investment program.For Langbank the following are included: -
Middlepenny Place/road to Denniston Road. Middlepenny Rd(Railway to Main Rd)
Parking coast
Gavin Newlands M.P. and myself have been trying to progress discussion in terms of the parking problem at Coast in aneffort for transport Scotland/ Amey to allow utilisation of the of land opposite for parking.
A site visit and request for details of Transport Scotland’s plan for this site has been requested. Still awaiting details.
Village Investment Fund
An additional £200k of funds have been added specifically tothe village investment fund.
Fairer Renfrewshire fund.
£5m allocated to support families with the cost-of-living crisisand child poverty.
* Annual village Clean-Up day 21st May
Delivery of Bags and litter pickers have been requested. Info Banners will go up on Main Road this weekend – foot of Station Road.
Clean Up Target areas will be general litter picking within the village, clean up at Swing Park (weeding and cleaning), clearing wooden planters on main road.
2pm Meeting points at Station field and at Swing Park
- CC is aware cleaning of equipment swing park equipment is RC responsibility but may have lapsed due to dwindling budget – community benefits if included in clean up day. Inclusive community event, in conjunction with LPS All welcome to join in – please bring gardening tools such as secateurs along too.
* Farm animals on Old Greenock Road.
Villager Contact via cc email suggested that due to Gleddoch planning topic on agenda, move to next month.
AOB.
Meeting closed – 21.50.